Copeland's Corner with Brian Copeland

The Day After. Election 2024.

Episode Summary

Guests this week: Tom Sawyer & Yayne Abeba

Episode Notes

Tune is as Brian and his guests Tom Sawyer & Yayne Abeba vent and reflect on the recent election results, expressing frustration and concern over the outcome. They critique the current state of American politics, citing the election of Trump, the Republican control of the Senate, and the potential loss of the House of Representatives. They fear the establishment of a fascist government and discuss the various societal and political ramifications, including issues of racism, sexism, immigration, and misinformation. The hosts debate media responsibilities, the role of various demographic groups in the election, and the importance of empathy in politics. They also speculate on the impact of social media and the influence of prominent figures like Joe Rogan. 

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Connect with our Guests...

Yayne Abeba: @YayneAbeba on Instagam

Tom Sawyer: TomSawyerVoices.com

Episode Transcription

EP191 - Copeland's Corner - The Day After Election 2024

Host Brian Copeland: [00:00:00] Alright, usually when, when I do this, this podcast every week, um, I spend a couple of hours, um, In the morning before we record going through all of the news feeds and reading, you know, publications, both online and in print, and, you know, finding topics to talk about, or if I know what the topics are, you know, finding out details.

And today I just couldn't do it. I mean, I looked at a couple of things, but it's just, uh, you know, today, you know, you're seeing this Thursday. This is today, uh, Wednesday, the, the day after the, the election. And I, uh, have just some thoughts. We're, we're just going to talk today. It's what it is. We're, we're going to do.

We're just going to talk today about, uh, about what, what, what down and how we feel about it. Just what our, our thoughts are on it. [00:01:00] Uh, Tom Sawyer is here or was here until they put his butt out of the chair. There he is. And, uh, is here. I appreciate you coming back. Um, And, uh, doing the show two weeks in a row, just, just the, the, the three of us.

And I, I just want to start just a couple, here's where we are as of right now, which is about five minutes to one Pacific time on Wednesday, uh, Kamala Harris is expected to, uh, address the nation. In about five minutes, she, she called Trump and she did concede and apparently said some words to him about the peaceful transfer of power, which, you know, we know that he took to heart and, uh, uh, as of right now, uh, Trump won the electoral college.

It is looking like he won the popular vote. Uh, the Republicans have taken the Senate and as of right now, the House has not officially been called. There are a number of races that are being, uh, [00:02:00] results are still being tabulated and we don't know. for certain, but the projections that I have seen that a couple of things I did look at today, I think the hill was one and a couple of others, they are projecting that the republicans are going to take the house of representatives as well.

So we are basically looking at now a fascist government. I'm gonna call it what it is. I'm gonna call it, I'm gonna call it what John Kelly, what the five star general, who was his longest serving chief of staff, uh, in, in his last administration said. He is a fascist. If he is elected or allowed into the Oval Office, it, it will be a run by a, a fascist and will be a fascist government.

So what we're looking at is, is exactly that. We've, you got Trump as the president, you have got, uh, a, a Republican majority. House of Senate, which is going to be all for the most part, Trump bootlickers and MAGA extremists. [00:03:00] The House is even worse when you talk about MAGA extremists. At least the last time you had some reasonable, uh, Republicans who would look at, at, at policy.

You could have a reasonable, you had your bomb throwers. Of course, you always have them, but you had some who were, who were basically guardrails and who protected us from his worst instincts. And this is all going to be, It's going to be like his idol Hitler. You know, he wanted Hitler's generals. Well, Hitler's generals did not swear an oath to Germany.

They swore an oath of loyalty directly to Hitler. And his son, Eric, uh, is, is going to be tasked during the transition with making sure that anybody he, um, decides to appoint is going to be, uh, someone who is loyal to Hitler. To him, not to the constitution, not to the job, not to the United States of America, not to the people of the United States of America, but loyal to Trump, meaning that if he tells him to do [00:04:00] something, he'll do it.

He's not going to be held accountable for anything he's done. Uh, you know, trying to overthrow the government the last time, you know, attacking our democracy, uh, the classified documents. any of this stuff by winning that election, it's just, you know, I'm just giving you my random thoughts and I'm going to throw it out.

He will not be held accountable. Uh, he's due to be sentenced for the one thing he was convicted on the 34 counts in, uh, in New York. Uh, but, um, That's up in the air as to what that means and whether or not with the immunity that the, uh, that the Supreme Court's given him and the latitude that they've given the presidency, whether or not they'll be, he'll be allowed to be sentenced at all, um, in, in, uh, or certainly sentenced to jail time in, uh, in when that happens, um, it's really frightening.

the things that we have in front of us. So, um, I, I started out really [00:05:00] angry. Well, first I was shocked. I was really surprised. I knew it was going to be close, but I just didn't think it was going to be like this. Uh, and then I spent a long time angry and I, and for you, forgiving for the bags on my eyes, I have not slept.

I tried to sleep and I just tossed and turned on my, cause I was just so upset in terms of, is this where our country is? 

Mm 

Host Brian Copeland: hmm. Where you can have a, a, a man who, I mean, the last time he was president, he'd lied 30, 000 verifiable times, uh, a rapist, a convicted felon, a blatant liar, a racist, a misogynist, a, a, a xenophobe, uh, with no platform other than you.

Lies about trans people, and lies about immigrants, and you're saying there's going to be a dictator. You're going to have a guy with all this stuff run against a woman who was more than qualified for the job. Who has spent her entire career [00:06:00] in public service, uh, who ran a flawless campaign, quite frankly.

I mean, what was the biggest, you know, kerfuffle that she may have, have lied about working at McDonald's when she was 16 and, uh, and, and still get blown out. My son sent me a text a little while ago going, you know, she got blown out so badly. I'm starting to wonder if If we did steal the 2020 election, I mean, that's how bad it is.

So, I mean, right now, I'm at a place where I'm sad more than angry. And here's what I'm sad about. I'm sad because the fact that he and his brand of politics has done so well this time around means that America Is fine with this. They're fine with the fact that a teenage girl in in Texas died over the weekend because she was miscarrying and the doctor wouldn't [00:07:00] treat her because he was afraid of going to jail under the Texas abortion law.

They're fine with that. They are fine with the fact that, um, he lies about, you know, immigrants eating animals and, and, uh, you know, that's like the 

Tom Sawyer: least of 

Host Brian Copeland: it. I mean, that's like, 

Tom Sawyer: that's like, that's like, uh, you know, Jack and Jill compared to what's coming around the corner. Well, but the point, 

Host Brian Copeland: the point is, it's just the demonization of the other.

And that's what I'm saying, and that's why I'm saying that Americans are saying that they're fine with all that, and they're fine with sexual abuse of women, and they're fine with all of that. And those who say that they, you know, did it for business reasons, or the pocketbooks, whatever, by any metric. I mean, if you looked at anything, look, look at the wall street journal owned by Rupert Murdoch, look at Barron's, look at Forbes, look at any of, of, of the financial [00:08:00] publications in the last 10 days, they've all run pieces on how this is the best economy in our lifetimes, as far as unemployment, you know, is concerned.

As far as job creation is concerned, wages, everybody, any metric, but So, um, so what does that say? I mean, I, I, I just can't wrap my mind about it. All it can says is that, you know, we are okay with this, and we are, we're, we're together against those people and the ones who I think quite frankly, are the biggest fools.

And I will say that the biggest fools are any of, of the, of the Latino men who voted for Trump, because they're the ones who put 'em over the top. And if they think 60% of them voted for. Is it? Well, some, some, some large number, but they're the ones that put them over the top. And if they think that in some way, they are going to be exempt from, from this mass deportation in this big [00:09:00] roundup of illegals, that's going to take place.

They're dreaming. They tried this a with operation wetback. And yes, that's what they called it in Arizona. And basically what it was is they profiled. And if you look like you were Mexican or you look Latino, you're illegal. Until you prove otherwise. So they're going to, when, once they start getting swept up and once they have deputized local police kicking in their doors, you know, and dragging them off to a camp somewhere, and maybe then they'll realize what it is they've done.

So that's, those are my opening thoughts. Uh, either one of you go ahead and take it from here and then we'll, we'll discuss. 

Yayne Abeba: Well, here's, here's what I think the problem is. First of all, like, yeah, I didn't go to sleep till five o'clock in the morning. I think I drank a whole bottle of gin and I was a hot mess when I woke up at seven o'clock in the morning.

So I've just been like laying in bed angry. Um, I went for a walk and I yelled at the, uh, front desk lady cause she told me to have a nice day.[00:10:00]

But I'm looking at the demographics and it's Latino men, There were more black young, young black men who voted for Trump and young men in general. But when I look at this, 55 percent of women, 18 to 45 voted for Trump. Oh, wait, wait, no, I'm reading this wrong. 43% So's down last, last time it was 

Host Brian Copeland: 55% and it was 55% in 2020, which blows me away.

And then in 2016, right after the Access Hollywood tape, it was, it was 52, 50 2%. 

Yayne Abeba: Mm. And then men, um, men, 18 to 45, 40 3% voted for him. So it's just the, I, I don't understand how he won the popular vote based on these percentages that I'm looking at, but. Well, it's looking like they're still counting.

Host Brian Copeland: They're still counting. I just, they're still counting, but they're saying it's looking like it. [00:11:00]

Yayne Abeba: But people are low information. They get their news from TikTok. People DM me all the time and say they don't watch the news. They just get information from me about the campaign. I'm not a journalist. Why would you do that?

It says I am a comedian, you know, I like the way you say things. I like the way you talk great. That'll be good if I want to start my own show, but I am not a journalist. So I take that to heart and try to like, have the right information when I put stuff out on Tik TOK, but I don't always get it right.

Cause I'm not a journalist. But that's where people get their information from is Facebook and TikTok, especially younger people. And there's a lot of things they don't know about. A lot of people don't know about Project 2025. They don't know. 17 percent of Democrats think that Biden is responsible for the abortion ban.

Host Brian Copeland: It happened on his watch. 

Yayne Abeba: Yeah. [00:12:00] They think he's responsible for gas prices because they don't understand that the president doesn't set gas prices. Um, they, they don't understand how government works, and that's the problem. 

Tom Sawyer: There's another problem, of course. 

Yayne Abeba: Well, the other problem is that they, um, this country hates black women.

Tom Sawyer: Women in general, 

Yayne Abeba: but especially black women. 

Tom Sawyer: Yeah. 

Yayne Abeba: Um, I have had women hate women. 

Host Brian Copeland: I can make an argument that even women hate women. The fact that in two elections, you've had the majority of women vote against the vote against the the woman who was 

Yayne Abeba: running But a black woman there's something there's something about The anger that is expressed towards me as a black woman in america That is just strange.

I have dealt with women and their tears When I haven't been yelling at them, and I'm just trying to get some information, like in the workplace and all of a sudden it becomes, why are you [00:13:00] yelling at me? And I'm like, I'm not yelling. I'm just asking you a question. You're making me uncomfortable. You're scaring me.

Like, they do that kind of stuff, and I don't know if it's left over from Jim Crow and slavery and all of that, where they want, they were below men, white men, and they want the proximity to power and feel like they can control something because they. You know what I mean? They are being controlled by men.

So for them, the person to vilify is the black woman because it's the easiest. That's what I think it is. It's just like social conditioning for generations. But people do not like black women, but they go to black women to fix things all the time. 

Host Brian Copeland: Well, the black women have been the Democratic Party's most loyal constituency, and they have ridden to the rescue in a number of times.

Um, I saw Michael Cohen, uh, in an interview last weekend on MSNBC, and he was talking about how he's talking to, um, uh, [00:14:00] Wealthy white Democrats, uh, in on the Upper West Side of New York about about Kamala. And they were saying, I don't know if I could vote for her. Well, why? Tell me why. Well, you know, the way she laughs, you know, there's something with her teeth.

There's wait, wait, excuse me. And he goes, I guess I kind of Colorado go. No. Now, here's who the other guy is, and you're saying because of the way she laughs, be honest, this is about racism, this is about sexism, this is about something else, misogyny, this is about something else. If you're, if you'll let all this other shit go that he does, and, and because of the way she laughs, so, So Tom, you had something you were saying, you were saying before, you were telling us a story before, uh, before we, we came out about, uh, some money approaching you about voting with their wallet.

Tell me the story. 

Tom Sawyer: Same thing. I was just, just, you know, cause I were, I was at work today. I work at a men's clothing store, Puerto Madera. And, uh, [00:15:00] I come in and buying some suspenders and, you know, we start talking about the election and he goes, well, Trump was good for my business. I was in the real estate business and I was really, it was really good for me.

And he pulls out his wallet. He goes, I vote with this. And I'm like, okay, well, and then I, then when he turned around, I gave him the bird, but, but cause you know, customer customer service, uh, but it's, uh, 

Host Brian Copeland: uh, And this is liberal Marin County. We have to tell the rest of the world. 

Tom Sawyer: Very Marin. Very liberal.

This is liberal Marin County. Where Trump probably lost like, like, like 780 to 820. That's the thing too. I had somebody say to me. You know, um, say to me that if you would have allowed slaves during slavery to vote, uh, their way off off the plantation, 20 percent of them probably would have voted to stay and stay as slaves.

It's people are people, [00:16:00] people are voting. People always vote against their best interests. Because something you don't know is, is scary and what they don't know is a woman being president. But what we do know, 

Host Brian Copeland: you know, we knew, we know what we're going to get. I mean, I'll give you a pass if you, I'll, I'm even willing to give you a pass if you voted in 2016 for him.

Because you didn't, you weren't, I mean, you should have known what you were going to get, but you didn't. Now you have the same answer. 

Tom Sawyer: Mehdi Hassan, though, said America suffered, America is the land of amnesia, amnesiacs. They, they, they cannot remember. It would not shock me if, um, after two years of this shit, if providing we do have elections in two years, that the, the House and the Senate flip by Huge margins.

So it's going to get really, really bad. 

Yayne Abeba: I don't know if there's going to be elections. And that's 

Tom Sawyer: my point. There are elections because, of course, these [00:17:00] idiots don't realize that voted for him. Don't realize what he's capable of. It's like the guy that voted for the wallet, you know, you know, 3 years from now, you see him like, uh, hanging from a street, uh, like, um, because people, uh, it's a, it's the same thing.

It's the same thing. Historically, people don't. Don't don't pay attention to history. People don't pay attention to people don't pay attention to anything these days, especially because there's this, there's the, the Internet there. The Internet is like a thing where. Smart people go to die. I've lost so many friends, including we're, you know, we've talked about this before.

I used to be friends with Joe Rogan. I don't recognize that guy anymore. You know, I sent him, he posted when he posted his endorsement. I sent him a thing on there saying, hey, buddy, it's your old buddy from San Francisco telling you. I don't recognize you anymore. I don't know who you are. I don't I know this guy would be.

Would be [00:18:00] kicking the shit out of out of the Joe Rogan that exists today. And now you've become nothing but a misogynistic, homophobic. Um, you're the same guy. You're you are Carlos Mencia. You are now Carlos Mencia. And, uh, and there's nobody around to kick your ass or call you out on it. I'm calling you out on it.

You know, you're a hack. Go, you know, but there's, but he 

Yayne Abeba: says young men, so young men get their information from his podcast and he invites them to vote. It's like Trump bro podcasters that motivated young men who are low voter turnout. Demographic motivated them to come and come out and vote. 

Host Brian Copeland: I'll tell you the other thing that that just has me shaking.

My head is, you know, the fact that you have, uh, you mentioned the number of young black men who supported him and it's black men under 25 who are [00:19:00] pretty much the demographic who police. Hassle in her. I mean, in my life, I've been harassed all of my life. You know, most of my young life, I was harassed by cops from walking down the street.

So I lived in a white suburb, but, uh, between probably 16 and 25 was the absolute worst. And if you look statistically, those are the ones who were getting shot for no reason by the police. Those are the ones who were getting jacked up for walking down the street and get pulled over for no reason. And you're going to vote for the guy who says that if he's elected, He's going to give complete immunity to police so they cannot be legally held responsible for anything they do under any circumstances, no matter what.

Now, I don't know that he's got the authority to do that. I don't think that's something you can do by executive order, but if these are all his toadies and he has a house and he has the Senate, you know, well, we've still got the filibuster, thank God, unless they can blow that out, which they may be able to do.

But why would you vote for that? I will, obviously they don't know what they're in for rude awakening. 

Yayne Abeba: Yeah. And [00:20:00] that purge thing. Remember when he said, if we could just let the police just have one day of extreme violence, we could get this all fixed. Like he talked about having a purge. Yeah. Basically.

Tom Sawyer: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's people, there's going to be a lot of people that go, well, dude, I just didn't know how bad, you know, I only knew how bad it would get. I was like, we're fucking screaming in your fucking face before this dude, you know, um, I mean, how do you forget 

Host Brian Copeland: four years ago? How can you forget four years ago?

Yeah. 375, 000 people died. 

Tom Sawyer: Right. Remember too, that, you know, there was, he had people that were stopping him. He had people that were telling him, no, you cannot shoot protesters in the leg. Uh, he had, he had, he had a house that was, that was impeached, impeaching him at least the last two years, you know, he had, uh, you know, uh, he had a lot of pushback from a lot of different areas.

Now it's carte blanche. Now, it's the green lights. Everything's a green. No, it's gonna stop. But I'm talking 

Host Brian Copeland: about, but just COVID itself, I'm saying in terms of [00:21:00] amnesia, you know, 375, just in 2020 alone, 375, 000 Americans died from COVID and 100, 000 of them, according to Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx said, That they estimate 100, 000 people died who didn't have to die because they would, the Trump people would look at the briefing that they were going to give and they took public health information out of the briefing if they thought it would hurt his chances at re election in 2020 or if they thought it would make the administration look bad.

And because of that information that we didn't get. There are 100, 000 people dead who wouldn't be dead. Not to mention all of those people were dead because of the mask, politicizing masks and politicizing social distancing and everything else. 

Yayne Abeba: Well, you know, here in Tennessee, I remember I was at a grocery store getting groceries, like all masked up and covered up.

And I heard this guy go, no mask. Yeah. You know, I got that COVID. I had to go to the hospital. I thought I [00:22:00] was going to die. He's like, he's not wearing a mask. And he's like, I tell you what though, I'm not getting that vaccine 

Tom Sawyer: because they 

Yayne Abeba: are in, they are in that bubble. 

Tom Sawyer: Yeah. And I'll tell you right now that if we had a, another, if we had some variant of COVID that we didn't, we weren't prepared for, um, Millions of people in this country be dead.

Like, well, we'll, 

Host Brian Copeland: we are going to have something like that. Because, because he's going to make Robert Kennedy Jr. Uh, the head of, of HHS Antier. And he's, he's an anti-vaxxer. You know what he said? The first thing he's gonna do is first thing he's gonna do, day one, get the, the floor outta, make fluoride outta water.

What, what, what are the signature health achievements in the 20th century to take fluoride out of water? Because of some crackpot, um, uh, theory that he's got that it's dangerous. Uh, so he's going to take. Ted out of water. Uh, one of the other things that, that he, that they're talking about doing and I'm not making this up is, um, [00:23:00] making, uh, vaccines, quite frankly, illegal.

Yayne Abeba: I'm not playing with that. I'm not talking about, I'm talking about, I lost my father and four of his brothers during COVID. I don't know if all of them, it was COVID. They said my dad was a heart attack. I know I had an uncle in Ethiopia who died of COVID. I had an uncle who flew in from DC right when COVID was hitting.

To Ethiopia and drop dead. I mean, and then I had another uncle die and they don't really know why he died. It's just, I get that vaccine. I'm not playing with that at all, but 

Host Brian Copeland: I'm not just talking about, this is not just the COVID vaccine. They're talking about, they're talking about vaccines. They're talking about.

Period. I mean, they're talking, you're going to see, I mean, like, you know, we had a whooping cough outbreak, uh, a couple of years back, uh, because, you know, whooping cough that my mother had in the forties, you know, that was pretty much gone. We've had measles outbreak. So if you stop [00:24:00] vaccinating against this stuff, there are diseases that we have considered to be dead, such as smallpox that we, uh, you know, polio that are going to come back.

Because the fact that they don't believe that they believe that these vaccines are daydreams given the MMR vaccine to children causes autism, which has been debunked by every health organization in the world, literally all be driving to Canada to get back. Well, 

Tom Sawyer: I'll tell you the thing about it is, and unfortunately, I think this is always been true for Republicans.

And I now I think it's spreading past that is that, um, we have a, we have a, uh, an epidemic of. Of people, of human beings who have no empathy, they are, they are, they cannot figure stuff out past here, 

you 

Tom Sawyer: know, if it isn't in their face, if they don't, the only reason, um, you know, the Cheney's are, are, uh, are, have been in the corner for LGBTQ [00:25:00] people.

Is because of their daughter is a lesbian. That's that's it. So it has to happen right there. And 

Host Brian Copeland: they're all not necessarily even because I don't know, but yeah, well, actually, I was gonna say, I don't know if you know about how much what happened when Liz Cheney first ran when Liz Cheney first ran. She threw her sister under the bus.

Oh, that's right. She knew she was not going to get elected if she said she was in favor of gay marriage and a gay right. She knew in Wyoming, she was not going to win that house seat. Well, that's the other thing. She threw her 

Tom Sawyer: own sister. They didn't talk for years. You, you talk about, um, He talked about Liz Cheney and, and, you know, we, anybody, you know, before when she came out, I was like, okay, you know, if we get some votes off of it, awesome.

I don't think I don't know. I think most people on the Democrat side understand that this is about getting more votes, not less. I'm not going to not vote for Kamala because Liz Cheney endorsed her for God's sakes, but I also, um, [00:26:00] understand that, um, the problem has always been that, um, Um, if you recognize that they're, they're part of the problem, they're part of the people who got us here.

There are only a handful of Republicans I absolutely trust because they understand that all the things that they had been doing in the eighties and nineties are what led us to Trump. That's why you got Stuart Stevens and 

Yayne Abeba: all of that Newt Gingrich and then Karl Rove and all of that and well, it even goes 

Host Brian Copeland: back farther.

It goes back farther. But it goes back to Nixon. Southern strategy is really what actually got it. It took 50 years or 60 years, but that's what it got us. But 

Tom Sawyer: that's the part that's driving me nuts. I haven't I actually turned off. The everything news wise on TV, because now it's all the money, all the Monday morning quarterbacks and everybody, except for one that I saw, uh, has been ignoring the, the elephant in the room, which was, I think Donnie Deutsch was going off [00:27:00] on Kamala Harris's, um, campaign.

And, uh, he was really the strong diatribe and Joe Scarborough. Said, I'm gonna stop you right here. You know, you need to stop this right now. This is not about her campaign. She ran a great campaign. She ran a marvelous campaign. Her rallies were full. You know, the enthusiasm was out the door. You could, you could hardly get on a phone bank because they were always full.

Um, what this is about is about racism and sexism in America, period. End of discussion. This is about, this is about groups of people who do not care if you, if women die, they do not care if, if women die in a car, they do not care where they died. They do not care. They just don't want them in power. They are 

Yayne Abeba: going to get green eggs and ham.

With it, the rhythm was going, I would not vote for one 

Tom Sawyer: in a tree. 

Yayne Abeba: Yeah, I would not vote for 

Host Brian Copeland: [00:28:00] one anywhere. 

Tom Sawyer: Well, I think Michael Moore was blaming Liz Cheney for B for, cause she endorsed in Democrats were against. It's like, no, dude, it's like, it's, it's, it's, it's a collective group of. Of human beings who have historically and always have done it now in doing it, where it's going into the history books have voted against their best interests.

It's Palestinians who voted for Trump voted for Trump or Jill Stein because of the, because the, the, the. Uh, people didn't do enough, uh, uh, again for, for Gaza. I get that, but you just, you just put into office a guy who is going to let Netanyahu massively slaughter, um, Palestinians and it's on you. It's on you that he just got the green light.

Biden's been pushing back at least Biden's been pushing back. And there was always a chance with Kamala that she would have just cut off, cut them off, uh, [00:29:00] militarily if they didn't hear an ultimatum. But now, now you dummies, it's all about the fact that you just let the guy in that is going to slaughter the hen house.

He is going, he's getting there with an Uzi. 

Yayne Abeba: He's the snake in his poem that he always tells, and America's going to be surprised when the snake bites them, you know. Like, you know, they took it home, 

Host Brian Copeland: uneducated America will be surprised. Those who are, who have been, they'll still 

Tom Sawyer: won't blame themselves.

They still won't own it. They still, I had a guy I was arguing on your, your website. Uh, you're, you posted a thing and I was arguing with this guy and I was just saying, Hey dude, this is not the time to, to blame Biden for not, uh, dump jumping out soon enough. So we could have a regular primary. We get that.

We all get that. Yeah. This was the best hand that we had because Biden shouldn't have, should have just run one and done and that's it. But, but, [00:30:00] but everybody has egos. Everybody has all this stuff that we have to deal with and all the behind the scenes stuff, you know, but Monday morning quarterback, the day.

The day after, especially in something this big, this isn't a football game or a basketball game. This is the United States of America. Life's are on the line here. So I'm, I don't, so you tell, you, you know, you telling everybody to chill out and can we please have a serious conversation about democracy and the primaries?

This was a, this is, this never happened before with the candidate bowing out this late in the game. We all know what happened. 

Host Brian Copeland: Well, then here's the other thing too. There's also the flip side of that. And there are those who are blaming Biden for dropping out at all, saying that if Biden had stayed in, that there may have been a different result because she underperformed Biden in just about every single, uh, just about every single county I saw last night.

I'm going to sound 

Yayne Abeba: a little crazy, but there were a lot of problems with polling places last night in Alabama, Georgia, and [00:31:00] Pennsylvania. And the DOJ says it's Due to Russian interference. Yeah, well, Russians were calling bomb threats among other things. Yeah. But, and then they had like problems, like tech problems with the voting machines.

There are people in Tennessee and Antioch, which is um, a very black and uh, middle East during, there's like lots of Iraqis Iraqi Christians there. And like Kurdish people, they were going to vote and they said that they were selecting Kamala on the voting machines and it was switching to Trump and they kept complaining about it.

So there's, there are irregularities, there are things that happened. I think she got more votes than actually were recorded, but 

Host Brian Copeland: not enough to make a significant 

Yayne Abeba: difference. I mean, I was like, oh, let me see how many votes Jill Stein got. She got like six. 670, 000. So did Kennedy. He got 600, 000 votes and Kennedy was 

Host Brian Copeland: I don't know the guy who wasn't even running got 600, 000 votes.

Yayne Abeba: I should have ran my dog. Pablo could have gotten some votes. [00:32:00] Did you see Pablo? 

Host Brian Copeland: Did you see Liz Cheney on the view? Um, yes, I think it was yesterday. My daughter just on Monday. She was on the view on Monday. And, and she was saying to people that you need to vote for Kamala, you know, those of you who, well, I can't vote for a Democrat or I'm going to write somebody in because my principles, this is not the time for that.

This is not the time for that. This is too important and we cannot let that man in the Oval Office. Don't be voting for third party candidates. Don't be writing in who your ideal candidate is because of your conscience. This is no time, you know, democracy is literally on the line. Liz Cheney has to 

Tom Sawyer: be the most frightened woman, one of the most frightened women in the country.

Because she 

Host Brian Copeland: must be what you're talking about firing squads and everything else. But I wanted to just my, my, my two cents on, on Liz Cheney. And I had an argument with my daughter about this. And that is that I, Liz Cheney and Adam Kingslinger, but, but Liz Cheney, especially Is is [00:33:00] one of the the few profiles and courage that I have seen in my lifetime, quite frankly.

I mean, she knew she knows what her family and I'm looking back up by saying that I agree with this woman about nothing. I mean, I, I, I, I disagree. I can't find any common ground with anything. I agree with her about not a single subject, except 

Yayne Abeba: for that anomaly. Yeah, 

Host Brian Copeland: but she knew what the ramifications are going to be if she by voting to impeach.

She knew what the ramifications are going to be by being on the January 6th commission. And she knew that, that there's no way she'd be reelected in Wyoming. She knew she'd lose her seat. She knew she'd be a pariah in, uh, in, in the Republican party, as long as MAGA controlled it. But she did it anyway. She knew the death threats were going to come.

She knew that, you know, the threats and everything else were going to come. She knew that she'd have to increase her security. She knew and she walked [00:34:00] into it. It would have been easy to do what Which is what most of the people in the Republican party who are pre MAGA, who are now MAGA, did, and that is just go along with it.

But instead she stood up and I, I give her props for that. My daughter said, well, that, you know, yeah, I agree with her on that, but it doesn't make her a superhero. She's being over praised for that. I don't think she's being over praised for that at all. That was a brave 

Tom Sawyer: thing to do. Well, here's the problem too.

And a lot of, a lot of things, there was a, There was, when I was promoting the documentary about Cobbs and myself, uh, I was, uh, you know, I had a PR firm for, uh, that, that specialized in podcast. So they reached out to Rogan's people and they, they, you know, went back and forth for a little while. But, you know, uh, I just didn't have enough, big enough name or whatever that they didn't have on the show for whatever reason, I didn't go, I, I didn't do the show.

Um, but then, you know, I was thinking. Now, even if I was going on there, [00:35:00] hopefully it would just be, I mean, if he asked me, I don't, I couldn't do it. Um, one is, one, two is, one, one, two, I've kind of skipped over one to go right to two. If I ever took politics with him, uh, there's no way that I feel like I wouldn't get death threats.

And, and I, you would, uh, because I would chastise him. There's no way I'm, you know, me, I'm not going to be splitting ears with the guy, uh, you know, going, Hey buddy, you know, I'm going to go, you fucked up, man. You know, you really, you, you, you went with the monster. You know, I don't, I know he has kids. I don't, I think he has a daughter.

I don't understand it. Well, I do because here's the 

Host Brian Copeland: thing, I mean, you tell me if, if, if Spotify came to you or, or, or one of these other, you know, major, you know, podcast company came to you and said, we're going to give you a hundred million dollars. 

Yeah, I 

Host Brian Copeland: had 

Tom Sawyer: the money before that though. Wait, that's, that's the other thing.

Joe. [00:36:00] Did already already played that card. Uh, when he did fear factor, he played the I don't give a shit. I'm doing this because I want to have, uh, financial freedom for the rest of my life. That's why he did. That's why he did that show. He told me that I said, why do you do? You know, that's it's kind of a crappy show, you know, and he's like, hey, dude, I don't really care.

They're paying me crazy money. But they're not 

Host Brian Copeland: paying him. They're not paying him enough to have him a waterfront mansion built, 

Tom Sawyer: which 

Host Brian Copeland: is 

Tom Sawyer: what 

Host Brian Copeland: it is. He's 

Tom Sawyer: got, well, he was living in Malibu on a ma in a mansion. He was doing. He was, trust me, he was really doing fine. He made a crazy amount. Remember, remember on a show like that you had the ratings that they had, he did it for years.

They were paying and it was network. That's true. He was network. He was, he was getting seven, like eight figures a year. You know, uh, he was set. And then the first time he got the big deal with Spotify, which was for a hundred million, he wasn't completely right wing. He was having, he was playing footsie with some right wing people, but that was just to have a conversation, you know, the old, um, you know, we're just going to have a conversation.

We can't be [00:37:00] afraid to have a conversation, you know, so we're going to have Matt Walsh come on and we're going to have Jordan Peterson come on. We're going to have these conversations. It's a Mars says, and then, and then eventually the second time through he went, he went completely right wing, but, um, But he was set the first time he got 100 million dollars the first time it was already set Got 100 million dollars moved it bought his mansion moved there bought his comedy club.

And now he is completely right wing and uh, so But he's also in austin which is like the most liberal place in texas Which he which and he's got his comedy club there, which I believe that if you're if you're If you're like us and there are people a lot of people like us in austin You You're not going to set foot in that place.

Yeah, 

Host Brian Copeland: Austin is changing. Austin is a blue spot in a ruby red state, but Austin is changing. And how about, how about, how about, uh, about the fact that Ted Cruz got reelected? I mean, I thought that there was a chance. 

Yayne Abeba: [00:38:00] I 

Host Brian Copeland: thought there was a chance. I would have liked 

Tom Sawyer: to have seen it close for, for God's sakes, you know, it wasn't even close.

It was like 10 points or something, right? Yeah. 

Yayne Abeba: Yeah. That's another state though where they wouldn't let the poll watchers from the DOJ in. The governor refused to let them observe the polls. He wouldn't let them in the state. They did voter intimidation. They went after people who register Latino voters.

Like they raided their homes like they were drug dealers. And then they purged over a million people from the voter rolls. Did a lot to make sure the Ted Cruz got reelected. 

Host Brian Copeland: This is all voting rights act stuff that, that had the voting rights act, not been gutted. Uh, you know, none of this stuff would have taken place because there would have been watchers there.

That would have been we're 

Tom Sawyer: at the end game. This is what they've been working towards the whole time. This is why I'm not worried about, I'm not worried about so much about so much of Trump. I'm worried about, I'm worried about what's coming around the [00:39:00] corner behind him. Yeah, 

Yayne Abeba: I don't even think he's gonna his health is so bad.

He's been dragging his leg. He's more and more confused. Um, you know, he falls asleep in the middle of stuff. Like, I don't know how much longer he's going to be around. 

Host Brian Copeland: Yeah, I've got it. I've got a, a, a, a friend who works in mental, who's a mental health professional who, while it is, it is, uh, against the policy of that profession to make diagnoses about people who they have not personally.

the examined. She says he's got all the signs of dementia. He's got all the signs. You know, she has a relative who has dementia and you know, it's the same thing. The rambling and all this we bullshit is is exactly what it is that, uh, that that her relative Does you know? Yeah. 

Yeah. 

Tom Sawyer: I mean, but until he starts nodding out the middle of a speech, no one's going to no one's going to say anything and they'll keep, you know, they'll put a stick.

They'll put a broomstick [00:40:00] up behind his back to prop them up. You know, he 

Yayne Abeba: didn't win that election. Putin Peter till and Elon Musk just won an election. That's right. He's just a useful idiot. That's right. Yes. 

Host Brian Copeland: Oh, that's right. And putting Elon Musk in charge of reorganizing the government. 

Yayne Abeba: Yeah.

Host Brian Copeland: Restructuring the government. 

Yayne Abeba: And Elon Musk has been talking to Putin regularly since 2000. Yeah. Even though he has all these government contracts with the U. S. I mean, 

Host Brian Copeland: it's just, it's almost 

Tom Sawyer: comical. It really is. It's like, I mean, it's one of those ones you, you, you laugh so hard you cry. But it's, it's like, it's just ridiculous.

And when you start talking to people like this, Oh, you're so paranoid. You know, 

Producer Char: the guy's 

Tom Sawyer: like, they're telling me, you know, Hey, here's a baby's head. This is a hammer. I'm going to hit it. And, and, and no, he's not. And then he hits it and they're going to, well, he didn't hit it that hard. It's not bleeding.

Host Brian Copeland: I'll tell you, that's the one that drives me the [00:41:00] absolute craziest. And that is, um, this idea. That, um, well, best summarizing that, that mean that was going around that I was sick of seeing, uh, you know, don't let two people who you don't even know, ruin your relationships and who don't know you. And, you know, it's just, you know, you know, politics is disagreement.

It doesn't, you know, don't let that affect your personal, you know, this is not, you know, this is, it's not Bush v Gore. This is not, you know, Clinton v Dole. This is not a normal thing. This is we're talking about people's lives and he's already responsible for killing a couple of 100, 000 people. I'll say he's already responsible for the debt.

You can't tell me that if Hillary Clinton. I mean, they went out to Barack Obama because 2 people died of Ebola 2 and he put the right thing in place. Don't forget the TAM suit, because the TAM suit. 

Yeah, 

Host Brian Copeland: but what I'm saying is though, is that, is that with the, you know, [00:42:00] but, but he, if, if Trump had been president when Ebola broke, it wouldn't have been two cases.

It would have been a hell of a lot more than two cases. So I'm going to say, you know, based upon the way he mishandled this, had he not politicized masks, had he taken care of that, the one thing I will give him credit for was Operation Warp Speed, the vaccine that later that he was responsible for, for, or at least didn't get in the way.

Of, of, of, uh, expediting the development of, even though he did everything he could to discourage people from taking it. So, but even though he got it, even though he got it. Yeah. It was apparently closer to death than, than, uh, than anybody knew. Yeah. Does anybody know? So let me ask you this question. Do the results say more about him and about MAGA or does it say more about the people of this country?

Yayne Abeba: I think it says more about the people of this country. 

Host Brian Copeland: And what does [00:43:00] it 

Yayne Abeba: say? It says that they are uneducated and racist. It really 

Host Brian Copeland: does. 

Yayne Abeba: Don't forget 

Host Brian Copeland: sexist. 

Yayne Abeba: And what Tom said, like, it's all about, well, what's that going to do for me for me? Like, the black men who they're not going to vote. They didn't vote for Kamala because they don't they're misogynist.

They don't like women, right? They're not going to vote for a woman. They don't think a woman should be in charge of anything that she should. I mean, there are guys on social media saying she needs to go back in the kitchen and make me a sandwich. She doesn't need to be our president. But also like they think Trump gave them a stimmy check and like, it's just about them, them, them.

And they're like, well, Kamala, what's she doing for black people? And it's like, well, she's got this plan. And they're like, well, it's not just for, it's not for black people. I'm like, yeah, no, it's for all Americans. Cause the president has to be president of like, everybody. And then you talk to them about the balance of power, how government works.

[00:44:00] And a lot of them haven't heard of project 2025, or they don't understand it. And then there's the whole like, Oh, he's not really going to do that. 

Host Brian Copeland: When the disaster comes, when the hurricane comes or the earthquake comes or the tornadoes come or whatever natural disaster comes to their town and they voted for him, but not, but he looks at the numbers and the town was more blue than red.

And so he denies them FEMA and denies them federal aid, you know, which is what he did. Which is what he actually tried to do. They actually show him. I 

Yayne Abeba: mean, 25 wants to completely eliminate FEMA. They want to also eliminate the national weather service. So you won't even know the storm's coming until it hits you.

Right. And then you're not going to get any money to read the whole thing. Yeah, they're, they're gutting government and they are already taking bids for builders to build deportation camps and, [00:45:00] uh, work taking bids for private prisons. They have a plan and they want to implement that immigration part in their first 100 days.

The Heritage Foundation is in charge of like the transition team with Eric. So those guys have been working. They've already been interviewing people. They've been doing loyalty tests. They have a staff to come in and replace everyone on day 1. They want to get rid of DEI. They want to get rid of the Department of Education.

They want to get rid of Project Head Start. Nobody knows about any of that. I know it because I was like, what the hell is this ? 

Tom Sawyer: And I started Covid and Steve Bannon's, pretty much Steve Bannon went out and said, immediately said, yeah, project 2025 is a real thing. It's coming. Yeah. 

Host Brian Copeland: That, yeah. They less time to act like it's, but that's, again, 

Tom Sawyer: here's the thing.

The other thing that they, they have to do is, and they then they, I'm gonna play devil's advocate for a second, and, and, and I'm gonna say that I think [00:46:00] that the difference between this place. United States and other places that this has happened at is, is the same thing the Republicans have been saying about, uh, about, um, guns and, um, and don't take my gun.

Don't do this. In other words, for fascism to really work, you have to start confiscating guns. And, uh, you know, you're going to, uh, well, you're probably going to shoot for taking a, uh, Shoot, you're probably going to go for taking, uh, guns away from liberals. You're going to make some mistakes, and you're going to make some loud mistakes.

And this is where we get to, I mean, I don't know if you saw the movie, uh, Civil War. Oh, 

Yayne Abeba: I did, yeah. And 

Tom Sawyer: this is where I think you get in with where Texas and California actually come together. Which is I've argued with people in the movie, Texas and California become the coalition against the United States [00:47:00] against the fascist president.

Because I think mistakes are going to be made because they're going to want to take the guns away because they're not going to want, you know, you're you with a gun regardless. You can change your mind. You could be the guy who changes mind understands what happens because again. Empathy doesn't happen for a lot of people on the right until it happens to th to something happens to them.

To them, exactly. So yeah, so here's where I, this is where I think their, their overreach, the, where they're missing the, the point. And they're not gonna be just happy with, uh, just being empowered. They're gonna, they're gonna o do an overreach at some point. They're going to piss off a big fraction of the right wing.

And then, then we have a possibility of having a legitimate civil war in this country because once they start, once they start confiscating the guns, which is a big, big, big no no on the right, um, uh, no matter who you are, uh, then they're going to go, hey, these guys are right. And this is wrong and blah, blah, [00:48:00] blah.

So it's not going to be all of them, but it's going to be enough of them to make a difference. 

Yayne Abeba: So, yeah, I don't understand because the gun industry supported Trump and they know

Tom Sawyer: how to do it, but billionaires support Trump too. And they, they don't understand, you know, just take a, just, just look at what's happening.

What happened over in Russia? Putin wasn't a rich guy when he started when he took over the country, he became a rich guy by oligarchs having a 10 story slip and falls out of windows. So I have a 

Yayne Abeba: Ukrainian friend when Ukraine was under Russian control, he was really wealthy and had like a big mansion and they came and took it from him.

He had to flee Ukraine because the Russian oligarchs came and took it with the blessing of Putin. Yeah, that's what's 

Tom Sawyer: gonna happen here. 

Yayne Abeba: And now he lives in a little apartment in the Bay Area and has a construction business. Like it's a completely, it's, he went from like being super rich in a mansion Cause he had [00:49:00] to flee for his life.

They were going to kill him. Yeah. It's 

Host Brian Copeland: fascinating. Cause I was just looking at a, um, I was, something came up on my YouTube feed. Um, uh, it was a tonight show from like this mid seventies when Desi Arnaz wrote his autobiography and I didn't know that his, his family in Cuba was a Were his grandfather was, uh, was like the mayor and his, his dad was a, a mucky muck until Castro came in and it's exactly the same thing.

They took all their property, took all their money and then fled. And his, and, and, and they went from being, you know, rich aristocrats to cleaning up bird cages to survive the bird cages in Florida survived same 

Yayne Abeba: thing. My great grandfather was the prime minister under Haile Selassie. And so when the communists overthrew, they killed my great grandfather.

And my father was in America already, like, you know, married to my mom. Um, but like the year before that we had been in Ethiopia for a year. Um, but my mom wanted to come [00:50:00] back. She couldn't handle it. Like she's born and raised in San Francisco and daughter of a cop. Like, she was like, this is not for me.

We came back and then the government was overthrown. And so like they killed a lot of my family. Oh, my American grandmother helps a lot of my dad's family get to the Bay area. And, um, my grandmother stayed, she was like, I was born in Ethiopia. I'll die in Ethiopia. They imprisoned her, said she was the enemy of the people.

tried to take her property. We had to figure out how to sneak money in for her to pay for things and buy stuff. Like it was bad. It was really bad. And so I don't think America realizes what an authoritarian regime. No, no clue. 

Host Brian Copeland: We're about to find out, you know, America is about to find out. Those who don't know we'll, we'll, we'll know, we'll know soon.

But 

Yayne Abeba: people here like Americans choose violence. Do you know what I mean? Like, [00:51:00] why do I want to choose violence? Oh, I'm American. And like, um, I mean, I was mad walking my dog this morning. I was like, nobody who looks like a Trump or better fucking look at me like I was mad, but like America is a violent place.

So these people, 

Tom Sawyer: and again, social media to me takes a huge part of it. I've equated social media. Social media is like the person you are on social media is the person you are in a car when you're alone driving. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know, it's just like that in traffic driving in traffic. I never talked that way when even with another person's in the car with me the way I talk when I'm in the car alone and when you're when you're on the Internet talking on the Internet.

And you don't know the person you're talking to, you have no idea what they're about, but you're, you're, you don't even have a picture up on your face, you have some weird name, I like corn, you know, whatever it is, and you have all this anonymity, and you can be the [00:52:00] worst person you caught because you're in the car alone.

And so, and nobody's going to be, you know, knocking on your door saying, Hey, what did you say about me? Asshole, you know, uh, on the Boston Red Sox conversation thingy yesterday. And so you're, you have the same thing. That's why we have, that's why social media for most people is like the worst thing that ever happened because we don't, we don't know how to behave around, uh, around people.

And especially, you know, When we're, we're not, we don't have a chance of getting hit in the face with a pool stick. You know, yeah, 

Yayne Abeba: I mean, but also it's. It, there's a lot of bots on the internet, but like today it's just all the Trump supporters like, haha, we own you lives. Oh, live tears. How you feel now lives.

And just like there, it's almost like they voted for him to own the libs. You know what I mean? And it's like, That's not how you play. That's how does that. I just, I don't know. I feel like the media and [00:53:00] social media just failed us with this campaign, especially the media. 

Tom Sawyer: That's why I won't listen to.

That's why I won't. I mean, I stopped listening to CNN. I stopped watching CNN years ago. I think, uh, you know, I think the third time. Chris Cuomo had Kellyanne Conway on the show. I said, that's it. I'm done. 

Host Brian Copeland: Yeah, but come on, he had to. It did serve a purpose. No, he didn't. He had to. Yeah, she's the chief spokesperson for the sitting president of the United States.

You have to have her on, whether you want to or not, whether you agree with it or not. I completely disagree. Well, that's journalism. That's not. Yes, it is. It is. It's supposed to be balanced on both sides. But the problem is there's stuff that that they that they did. He's not the sitting president now. Oh, well, he will be soon now.

But but during a lot of the last couple of years, he has not been and there are a lot of things that they tried to both sides behavior that you don't need to do that. Yeah, well, when you're talking about, you know, Kellyanne Conway, who is a big a liar, I'm one of your husband left her for [00:54:00] God's sake. Um, yeah.

She's the one that came up with alternative facts, 

Tom Sawyer: right? Can I say one thing about this? Just, just one pushback on this, about this is like you, I'm not saying don't have Iran. I'm just saying you're going to have rules. You can't be coming. If it was my show, I would say, Hey, look, you know, I'm not going to play this game with you of you.

You give up. You give out 10 lies and pieces of misinformation, and I only have the time to push back on three of them. We're not going to play that game here. You're bringing down my show by lying on it. You want to talk about one topic, stay on topic, one, two. And we can have this conversation on the air so everybody knows what's going on.

But I'm not going to allow you to come on my show and outright lie about stuff. So that's your call. You can come on the show, we'll discuss facts, we'll discuss reality, and We'll discuss your opinion on things, but when you come on here and outright lie, I'm just telling you right now, this will be, this will be the last time we do this.

Host Brian Copeland: Oh, [00:55:00] I see. And that's perfectly within bounds. Yeah. There's nothing wrong with that at all. And in fact, I have, over the years, I've had a couple of situations where I've actually had to do that when I was hosting talk shows. 

Tom Sawyer: Yeah, but that's my point. Broadcast talk shows. I'm not saying, I'm not saying ban her without anybody knowing.

Do it on air so everybody, everybody knows what's going on. Yeah. You know what you said, but 

Host Brian Copeland: then it looks like you're bullying her. And we'll see, here's the problem is that makes you look, that makes you look like a, a, a, a biased moderator, because what it is is you are putting, uh, uh, conditions on her as far as they're concerned, how Luke, how the perception of it is, is that you're putting conditions on her and calling her a liar before she's even opened her mouth that you don't put on anybody else.

Tom Sawyer: I wouldn't say, I wouldn't say that you do that up front. I would say introduction. Yeah. I'm saying. You do that after like 20 minutes into the show, you know, this is where we're going. I I yeah, I don't want to we're not playing this game anymore. 

Yayne Abeba: Joy Reid is good at doing that when people, she's like, no, it's [00:56:00] not, that's not true.

Please don't tell lies on my show. Okay, the interview is over. If you're just going to lie and not tell the truth, then there's no need for us to continue 

Tom Sawyer: talking. Which is why a lot of right, which is why the majority of white right wing people avoid MSNBC like the play. Nobody's going, nobody's Scarborough from, from, from Trump's group.

No one is. Cause Joe, Joe just rip them the shreds, even though he's a, even though he's a conservative, you know, it's like, and the reason is you're, you're giving these guys oxygen. That's what CNN is terrible at. Let's 

Host Brian Copeland: let's be fair. Brianna Keeler has, as I've seen her do that with people on CNN, there are a couple of people on CNN who will, who will fact check in real time or who will end, uh, will end an interview mid interview.

Brianna Keeler is one. 

Tom Sawyer: Yeah, I've actually seen her though, but I've actually seen her. She, she's the problem I have with her is the same problem I was talking about with Chris Cuomo. You let somebody tell 10 lies. [00:57:00] And then you push back on three of them. And you know, they've already accomplished their goal.

Host Brian Copeland: Okay. But you had the thing you have to realize as well. And I'm saying this from the position of being an interviewer is that a lot of time and having interviewed Kennedy is a perfect example. And I'm not going to say that Kennedy lied because, you know, he, there was just so much flying. You don't know if he's lying or not.

But I've interviewed him three times, twice in a day, once on radio, once on TV. And what he'd do is he comes on and he would, he would come on and filibuster. That would be basically be it. And that's how they can get. And I'm not saying he came out and lie, because I think, I think it was like the Appalachian situation or something.

He came on talking about the poverty. Yeah. But so it wasn't like something that he could really come out and tell a bunch of lies about, but, but there are, are guests who you get, who will do that, who are liars who will come out and we'll filibuster. And if you can't get a word in edgewise and you've got to remember, you have time, you, I mean, you have a limited amount of time, you [00:58:00] know, on television.

You're playing the clock when they did the show. On a television interview, a TV interview is generally three to five minutes. That's what I would get for a five minutes is a long segment on TV that I would get. Radio was different. Talk radio. You get, it's like, yeah, that's doing this, but with commercials, you get an hour, you know, you, or you can have up to an hour, even though like towards the, the, the, uh, the, the end of my career on, on, uh, broadcast AM was they didn't want us doing anybody for an hour.

And it was like, you know what, if this is important enough. I'm doing it. You know, I can't, I can't get this in, in a half an hour when out of that half an hour, 15 minutes, I'm in our commercials, but, but if they're coming in and it's limited time and they're just right at that, that, that, that, that, that you get, you get in what you can get in and you can't fact check each and every solitary thing in real time as they do it.

So it's kind of unfair to 

Tom Sawyer: blend the moderator is what it is. Well, right. But we, cause every, everything's turned into crossfire. Everything on TV is turned into crossfire. That's why I became. Obsolete because [00:59:00] that's what I've been watching all day and now you're putting it in a half hour show. Are you kidding me?

You know, so, uh, That's on the media, you know, they just went, they didn't want to go to the guy in Gaza with the microphone going like, hey, you know, going like that. They wanted to have two people discussing it who weren't even experts. They're pundits. They're not even experts. That's the thing is before we had experts.

You know, it 

Host Brian Copeland: depends on who you're looking at because they, they have experts on 

Tom Sawyer: it. It depends on time. It's two pundits yelling at each other most of the time. Yes. Yeah. And, and, and that's cheaper to do a lot of the time. 

Host Brian Copeland: Well, actually, you know, you have to realize too, that even a lot of the experts are in the world, the experts, the pundits as well.

A lot of them, I I'm going to say 50 percent or more of them are not getting paid. Right. They're doing it for exposure. They're doing it so that they, they can sell their book to a mass audience. They're doing it, you know, so that they can get speaking engagements because they're a regular on CNN or MSNBC or Fox news [01:00:00] or wherever that's why it is that they're doing it.

So as I do with that, but they're 

Tom Sawyer: definitely like Scott Jennings over at CNN is paid. Oh God. 

Host Brian Copeland: Yeah. There are some that are paid, you know, 

Yayne Abeba: Today him talking. I was just like, why is he on CNN? But CNN is owned by a Trump supporter, right? Right. So MSNBC. Who owns 

Host Brian Copeland: CNN these days? I don't even know who owns it.

Let me 

Yayne Abeba: Google their name for you. Um, yeah, I'm interested to see what happens with the media now because you know, he threatened to arrest a bunch of people. 

Host Brian Copeland: Yeah, he can't unilaterally do that. I mean, but he threatened that, he threatened to revoke broadcast licenses, that's out of the hand, however, depending on who he sits on the FCC, who he puts on the FCC is already 

Tom Sawyer: a trumper though.

Oh, 

Host Brian Copeland: oh wait, 

Yayne Abeba: wait. So Warner 

Host Brian Copeland: Brothers, so it's Warner. Okay. Well it's a corporation then. It's a major corporation though. 

Yayne Abeba: Okay. CI of warns. There wasn't like a Trump guy who was running CNN for a bit. Yeah, 

Host Brian Copeland: well [01:01:00] Zucker ran it for a while, for a long time. Zucker ran it. 

Tom Sawyer: I think the last guy got booted off 'cause he was having a, uh, a tri with um.

Somebody else who worked there. Oh, really? Now, the guy who, the guy who did where they did that Trump interview where we're in front of his, uh, his people and, uh, that you've got fired. 

Yayne Abeba: Hmm. 

Tom Sawyer: Yeah. 

Yayne Abeba: So yeah, I'm interested to see how the media, the mainstream media changes with Trump in the white house. So I can 

Host Brian Copeland: tell you, I can tell you this now that there you're already seeing.

Um, and it's, it's funny how much I actually have seen today and I realized, and I, I started with saying I hadn't seen much and I guess I, I have, uh, I mean, I've, I've wanted to avoid it because I'm, I'm so sickened, uh, by, by what this says about the, This country, um, but, uh, I see spines crumbling. I mean, you know, uh, Mark Cuban was all over the place.

I saw Mark Cuban on Rachel Maddow, you know, talking about, you know, he and Trump [01:02:00] had been buddies and then he found out who Trump really is and how he's bad for the country and he's stumping for Kamala and he's all over the place. And then today, what the quote is, is that he called Trump and congratulated him on winning a free and fair election and said, Godspeed.

And I mean, you're going to see, I mean, what do you think? Bezos? You know, why do you think Bezos decided not to endorse Kamala? For God's sake, the editorial board of the Washington Post had already decided they were going to do it. And Bezos decided not to because of the fact that what if Trump wins?

Last time Trump was president, he wanted to jack up postal rates so that it would cut into Amazon's bottom line. And so now that he's won, you're going to see a lot of these stiff spines that were up against him. They're all, you 

Yayne Abeba: know, that space program too, right? So Bezos has a space program that he's trying to get.

And someone had met with Trump before he decided not to endorse someone from his space program. 

Host Brian Copeland: Yeah. He, I thought it was Elon that had a, had a, a space. Those 

Yayne Abeba: also has one that's in, [01:03:00] but Bezos doesn't have a government contract. Elon does. 

Host Brian Copeland: Yeah. So we can say, Elon, I know has a government contract. So 

Yayne Abeba: Trump is transactional.

So he's going to say whatever he needs to say to get what he wants. 

Host Brian Copeland: So before we run out of time, let's, let's end with this. Um, I saw a, uh, there was a post that Robert Rice had, uh, today where, and I'm paraphrasing, and, uh, and he said basically, you know, not to get angry, you know, this is this, you know, basically just to grieve, take a breath, and then the resistance starts tomorrow.

That's what he said. Yeah, it starts. Um, what do you think the next steps are? What do you think should happen? What do you think? What do you what do you think we can do? Or are you in the canvases? It's it's you know, I talked to younger people today. Some young family members who are very engaged. He just said, that's it was over.

There's there's there's no point. There's nothing I can [01:04:00] do. And I just discussed it and there's nothing I can do. 

Tom Sawyer: Well, I think it's a, it's a, it's sort of like a wake, you gotta let people grieve, you know, you gotta, you gotta give people space to grieve, you know, uh, that's kind of what I was saying to that dude on your, on your Facebook, uh, thread was like, dude, let's, let's, let's give everybody a space to grieve.

Some space to, to, to bitch and moan and groan and, and, and, and throw stuff and let's be understanding and, you know, treat each other with some kid gloves right now, because we're all in mourning, uh, you know, um, for somebody, our candidate that we put a bunch of energy into. I mean, you and I, Brian, we, we know, because we tried to do a benefit for Kamala and, and it was a lot of work and we got nothing out of it.

And, um, But we, we're still in our corner and we're still, but we're still big fans and we're still grieving about it. Um, so I [01:05:00] think everybody needs to give us a little space. We still have two and a half months of this administration. Uh, I know they're trying to put a no King's bill together, um, that will make it at least super difficult for Trump to, um, Uh, to do some of the stuff they're afraid he might do if he doesn't do it.

Great. It's just sitting there, but it should be there anyways. It's that's, 

Yayne Abeba: he's going to, I mean, do you think he's going to, he doesn't follow the law on anything so they can create the King's bill and it wouldn't make a difference. 

Host Brian Copeland: Well, we have a new King's bill. It's called the constitution, but we've already got one.

That's why it was, 

Tom Sawyer: but the thing about it is remember, like, this is the problem we've had with, with Trump since the beginning, it's like all the things we thought were laws. Yes, a word norms, you know, to have, we need to have some laws and you know, so the thing I'm the thing I think is that, you know, it's just about resistance.

You know, I also think we really need to, um, you [01:06:00] know, uh, like I said that today Gave a guy the bird behind his back, but, uh, you know, not get into altercations with these people. The other thing we have to remember, too, is that, um, you know, we don't know how far this is going to go. And we got history. We have some history that we know of where we need to be very cautious around people that we don't know how we talk and because, you know, a year from now, they could be the 1.

Oh, that's the guy that thought same thing about Trump. And so, you 

Yayne Abeba: For me, social media. 

Tom Sawyer: Well, here we are right here, but I'm just saying as a, as to our listeners out there, you know, just be, just be careful, you know? 

Host Brian Copeland: That's a good point. And I will tell you the one thing that too, that just drives me. Crazy.

And I don't know what we do about it. And that is this perception that this is just, you know, celebrates because, oh, you lost an election. This, again, this is not a normal election. This is not a Democrat Republican thing. If, [01:07:00] if, if Barack Obama had, had, had lost to, to John McCain. I would have been disappointed.

I would have been upset, but I wouldn't fear for the Republic, for the future of the Republic. I wouldn't fear for, you know, for my children's safety and my grandchildren's safety. I wouldn't fear for what's going to happen to healthcare. I, I wouldn't, you know, fear for, you know, losing my healthcare and, and, and my eye care and all that, you know what I'm saying?

So they're all, you know, there are all of these other, Parts of this is, this is not, you know, but to simply say, well, I'll just stop it. You just lost the election. Just let it go. There'll be another one of four years. It's not like that. And the fact that the fact that people can't, that the fact that there are so many people who can't see and can't understand this, uh, that's the thing that, that, that, that bothers me a lot.

And I don't know what we do about it because you're not, one thing I've learned since 2015 is you can't educate anybody about shit. They have to, they have to live through it and learn it [01:08:00] themselves. Well, we are in an era where you cannot, as you could put up every chart and you can bring up a pictures and the pictures are photoshopped or Dr.

Doe Clay, you can, you know, We all saw what happened on January 6th, but there's still people who are swearing up and down that even though we saw it, here's 

Yayne Abeba: the footage that it was peaceful. Don't believe you're lionized. I mean, but yeah, it's like we're in the F around and find out era. 

Yeah. 

Yayne Abeba: People learn, you know, but part of me, first of all, like, He wore Proud Boy colors all weekend.

You noticed that, right? 

Yep. 

Yayne Abeba: Did before the, uh, before Tuesday. And I wonder what kind of role they're going to have in his administration. Oh, they'll have one. Like a Gestapo or something. Well, you watch, he's 

Host Brian Copeland: going, he is going to pardon All of those Insurrectionists 1100 or whatever Insurrectionists who've been, who have been in prison for January 6th, he is going to issue them pardons and let them all out and including those.

And I and I I [01:09:00] guarantee you, if it's federal, and I believe it was federal 'cause it was sedition, those, the three proud boys higher up who were, who were the ones who are doing real time, like 20 years, 25 years, whatever, for sedition, he will pardon them and, and they will be out. So I guarantee you that they will be, they're going to be his Gustavo.

Yayne Abeba: That's the role they're going to play. And part of me, like in my fantasy worlds, like in my dream world, um, the Democrats would stop being decent and use the fact that the Supreme court just gave the president who is currently Joe Biden immunity for anything. And he could declare, I do not acknowledge these election results in order to preserve our democracy.

I'm installing Kamala Harris as president while we haven't reelection. And it needs to be done this way and you can't do anything about it because the Supreme Court gave me full immunity. 

Host Brian Copeland: Well, you couldn't do that. The Supreme, number one, this, you wouldn't be able to call a new election. Um, the, the, he could [01:10:00] resign and make common president for a couple of months.

He could do that, but the more useful and practical and realistic thing to do since, since he's got a couple of months and he's got the Senate is if I were him, I'd ram as many judges through as possible. Right. Every vacancy I could find, I would put somebody in who is fair, reasonable, knowledgeable, qualified, and make sure that they get, uh, get confirmed.

Otherwise, you know, because you know what's coming. Any, any vacancy you leave, he's going to fill with an Eileen Cannon. 

Yayne Abeba: Yeah. Right. 

Host Brian Copeland: So that's, and he's talking about her 

Yayne Abeba: being Attorney General. 

Host Brian Copeland: Oh, is, see, I thought she, she wanted a Supreme Court to see, I thought that's what she was angling for. 

Yayne Abeba: I don't know.

She wanted be, I heard, I, he mentioned, uh, attorney General for her. I don't know. I know the DOJ is trying to figure out how to wind down all the charges against him. 

Host Brian Copeland: You know what I'm curious about? And, and, and this is a terrible thing to say, but I'm gonna say it anyway. [01:11:00] Uh, and I'm not implying, I'm not implying anything.

I, I'm, I'm just asking. Mm-Hmm. . And that is. It has been since the, the organization was created at the end of the second world war, the CIA's job, supposedly their mission to protect America and protect the American way of life. When you're talking about a fascist government come and you can see it coming down the road, you know, we've seen for a couple of years, cut out.

Where have they been? 

Yayne Abeba: I don't know. I know that's what I'm just I'm just curious about. Where have they took those documents? Some of them were were killed in the field because their identity was revealed. They're not sure if it's connected to him taking those documents. Some of the operatives really?

Yeah. So, but I don't know. I don't really understand what the CIA does. I know that they're good at like disrupting things in other governments and installing dictators in other countries, [01:12:00] but I don't know what else they do. 

Tom Sawyer: Well, maybe Columbia's CIA can come over here and install. 

Yayne Abeba:

Tom Sawyer: president. 

Host Brian Copeland: Well, Russia.

Tom Sawyer: My little

Host Brian Copeland: friend. 

Yayne Abeba: Yeah. Oh, my gosh. It's just, yeah. And, you know, it's, I don't, I don't know what, what we're in for at all. 

Host Brian Copeland: Yeah. 

Yayne Abeba: Well, 

Host Brian Copeland: well, deep breaths, deep breaths. Well, thank you. Thanks very much for joining us. And I appreciate it. No problem. And we'll have you on. We'll have you on much, much more. So try and get some sleep, get some sleep.

I'm probably going to have to have a bottle of gin tonight. 

Yayne Abeba: You know, I haven't been drinking. So yesterday I was like, I'm just going to have one drink. And then the election results came in. I'm like, I'm gonna have another drink. Okay. I think I just drank a whole bottle. I was like drunk. I was drinking electrolyte water and coconut water after a while.

By yourself? Drinking alone? No. I had my cousin came over and some of my neighbors came over, [01:13:00] so that's not bad. You had people around you at least. Yeah. 

Host Brian Copeland: I haven't had a drink in 10 years and I, I felt like having a drink last night. I thought about that, how bad that was. I literally had another drink. I had, I had like half 

Tom Sawyer: a beer.

I, I was just. Going now, this is not I'm going to get I'm going to get even more depressed, you know, so I had a hard enough time sleeping because I think I felt, I think I crashed about 10 woke up at 1 didn't crash again until 4 so because I was on tick tock. I saw you on tick tock. 

Yeah, 

Tom Sawyer: a bunch of people had a lot of really a lot.

There was a lot of people with a lot of really cool shit to say. It made me feel a little bit better. You know, somebody else carrying that, that anger and angst, you know, but there's a lot of hurt people out there really hurt people. Yeah, because it's, it's, it's, it's, it's the thing about like a bunch, this guy is against so many people and, and so many people that you thought would be in your corner are not, you know, men, [01:14:00] men, I think men don't understand that, you know, you know, it's women aren't just, you know, the, the, that thing you masturbate to, they're your daughters and your sisters and your mothers and your wives, and you've just thrown them out.

All under the bus. All 

Host Brian Copeland: under the bus. And you know, and when your sister dies because of an, she's in a state where she can't get an abortion and she has an ectopic pregnancy and the procedure to deal with that. So the muscle is considered by law in several of these places to be, uh, an abortion. Yeah, that's exactly it.

That was, that 

Tom Sawyer: was the bullet that killed her. 

Yayne Abeba: Yeah. Another thing that I've had a lot of men say to me, well, you're in your fifties, you're not going to have any kids. So why are you worried about it? I'm like, oh my God, really? That's how you look at things. Well, you 

Host Brian Copeland: know what? Well, the guy who beat the guy who beat Sherrod Brown in Ohio and took his Senate seat [01:15:00] said that he said that at a fundraising thing and they got it on video and, uh, you know, women over 50.

Oh, why, why do they care? And it was such a firestorm that he said, apparently three or four stupid things like that, that it got to the point where he had his aides, they found some kind of a spy gadget box that if you put it in front of the mouth of somebody who's asking a question, and somebody is trying to record it.

It comes through his gibberish and the recording. So they, so, uh, uh, I think it was MSNBC who had a, uh, had video of, of the guy walking in his car and some reporters are yelling questions at him and they're holding the box up because he kept saying, anyone I was born in Akron and I'm so glad that we left when I was five.

I'm so glad we left. 

Yayne Abeba: Well, my existing Congress person who just got reelected, he didn't run any ads here and he's. His office got [01:16:00] raided by the FBI, but it's Andy Ogles. I call him the George Santos of the South. And he got reelected. And the woman running against him, I phone banked for her and volunteered for her campaign, Mariam Aboufazli.

She had ads everywhere. She was setting up town halls. She was knocking on doors like she had a great and they voted for Ogles. I don't understand it. By the way, you 

Host Brian Copeland: know who won, what party won, uh, George Santos seat? Is it, did a Democrat win or did a Republican? Yeah, it 

Yayne Abeba: was Tom, uh, how do you say his last name?

Swansea or something like that. 

Tom Sawyer: So it was a Democrat. 

Yayne Abeba: Yeah. 

Tom Sawyer: The other thing I wanted to bring up too, which was one of those weird things from last night, was the, that, um, the abortion bill in Florida that almost passed, 57%. They needed 60. I don't know how that works, but they needed 60 to make it pass.

Mm-Hmm. 50 got 57% of the vote. But then the [01:17:00] two architects, Trump and Rick Scott, Scott, uh, the guys who, uh, lo who lost you? That, that, uh mm-Hmm. That write, uh, those are the guys you voted back in. Yeah. It's insane to me. I don't even, I don't even, it boggles my fucking mind that you can't, you can't go like this.

Yayne Abeba: They, they voted to protect abortion rights and legalize weed and they voted for Trump. 

Host Brian Copeland: Well, you know that, uh, that 60 percent thing, they tried that in Ohio, you know, within the last election when they had, uh, it was on the ballot in, in Ohio, whether or not it was, it was a guarantee. Oh, I don't know if it was in the state's constitution or just a state law that guaranteed that a woman had had access.

And, and so the Republican controlled state legislature tried to raise the threshold to where it would have to be. I think even to get on the ballot, I think they tried to raise the threshold. So instead of being 15 percent or 51 or whatever it is, it had to be said to be a [01:18:00] super majority. Yeah. So, well, anyway, we, we already out of time and we can, we, we could go on here all day, but I'm just getting more, so this isn't cathartic.

This isn't tequila waiting for 

Tom Sawyer: me. 

Host Brian Copeland: I'm going to try to sleep. This is, this is a bit cathartic. So rest, do something good for yourself. And I'm saying that to everybody who's watching, even though you're watching on Thursday or Friday, still take the weekend rest, do something good for yourself, you know, one way or another, you know, what did the, what is it, the arc of justice bends, you know, towards freedom.

We'll, we'll, we'll get there. You know, my sister is, uh, is, uh, is very prominent with the Sacramento Democratic Party and she was talking about, um, you know, made a lot of the comments about African American women, uh, in, in politics that you made, uh, today and, uh, and I said, so what do we do? She goes the same thing.

Black people have always done. We overcome. Yeah, [01:19:00] one way or another, we overcome, we've been doing it for 400 years, you know, there are bad times, there are good times, you know, and, and I'll tell you, I'll leave it with this too, something else that I heard a while ago that somebody said, I can't remember who said this and they're absolutely right.

And that is that. What we have are seeing right now is the is is really the end the civil rights movement and all that the Voting rights act civil rights act Affirmative action dei all that could be considered the second reconstruction And just like after after the civil war you had reconstruction where african americans were given rights were given the vote could own property You had a black senator from the south african american senator from the south and then uh Uh, they, they got rid of Reconstruction and Jim Crow came in for 100 years and, and, you know, everything was terrible.

And then in the 60s with the Civil Rights Movement, you have the Second Reconstruction. Well, I can't remember who said this, but what we are seeing is the end of what was this [01:20:00] really the Second Reconstruction. You can call that period the Second Reconstruction because it gave African Americans equal rights, or at least tried, attempted to level the playing field.

And that's, uh, this was the final nail. Last night. This was the, this was the mail that ended it. 

Tom Sawyer: Yeah. 

Host Brian Copeland: If, if you want to look at it that way. And I think, I really think that analogy works. I really, well, to me, as 

Tom Sawyer: long as we have, um, as long as we have free and fair elections, um, for the, it, and we can get the house and Senate back in, in two years.

Uh, we got a shot at turning, uh, at turning all this around because they're going to show their true colors right now and I think it's going to freak out a lot of people. The guy with his wallet, you know, and I vote with my wallet, you know, when you start seeing, um, you know, protesters being shot in the street.

Um, when that, when, when worse things, when more women, because we're just at the tip of the iceberg with the women that are dying from this, because it takes about a year to report, um, what, what [01:21:00] what's happened with the cause of death is I heard that, but we're on something, but to me, the more information that comes out.

Um, you know, especially if he starts like, um, arresting people, media people, um, they're, I, I, I don't know if they're going to be cautious or they're going to come out of the gate swinging, but if they do, and we still have elections in 2 years, I don't think, I don't think that, um, they, they'll survive that.

Host Brian Copeland: But what more did you need to see, Tom? I mean, everything, everything. No, but no, 

Tom Sawyer: you're, you're, but, but what you're, we didn't see it. We, we, we didn't see all of it because we were told about it, but you don't, we're, again, we're talking about people lack empathy who don't, can't put two and two together. They actually need to see it.

Yeah. We had all these people stopping doing all the worst things he wanted to do. Now we have all these people that are with them that are going to green light this shit. So that's what I'm saying. As long as we have a vote in two years. [01:22:00] My, my gut feeling is that we'll be able to vote all these assholes out and then we'll have the wall that we need fingers crossed.

Yep. 

Host Brian Copeland: All right, well, thank you both. Take care of yourselves. I would have mentioned I'm not here. I am not here next week. I'm, I'm getting out of dodge. Yeah. So it's 

Tom Sawyer: me and Kathy Ladman and Jim Valley. And Matt Weinholdt. 

Host Brian Copeland: Oh, oh, I might not go. That's a great show. I know what you know. Yeah, you know, bookshops are down for me, you know.

Well, you know what to do. You're going to be fine. So that'd be a great show. I will check. The cat is the way the mouse got to play. Well, have a good show. All right. Thank you. All right. I will see you. I'll see you in two weeks time next week. Till next time. Be kind to your neighbor. And, uh, actually I'm not gonna say that this week.

Here's what I'm gonna say. Keep the faith. 

Yayne Abeba: Yeah. Thank you.[01:23:00]

Producer Char: Copeland's Corner is brought to you by Carolina Productions and go to Productions. It was created by an executive, produced by your host, Brian Copeland. It is produced, recorded, and edited by Charlene. Go. Our booking producer is Tom Sawyer. If you like what you hear, please be sure to subscribe, rate, and comment on our YouTube channel and wherever you listen to your podcast media.

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